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Danger - Losing our children to Parent Alienation Syndrom
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tiffany
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Danger - Losing our children to Parent Alienation Syndrom Reply with quote

I just lost my daughter to her abusive father. There was domestic abuse involved as well. Child protective services and the police would not help when asked, even with medical proof of child abuse. They have claimed that I have PAS (parent alienation syndrom). PAS is a THEORY that has not been proven and is now used in the court systems against women when child abuse comes up during a custody case. Once PAS is mentioned all claims of abuse no matter the evidence there is to back it up is discredited or not believed. The founder of this theory , Richard Gardner, was a purpetrater of abuse himself. He is now dead because his children murdered him because of the abuse that they sustained by him during thier childhood. If anyone else has experianced the loss of thier child due to PAS please contact me. woods_in_the_light@hotmail.com
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Barbara
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep going girl,as this phony mental disorder know as "Parent Alienation Syndrom" is the reason that you mothers are losing custody. Family Court's don't judge if it's real or not, but do allow it as a reason to give custody to abusive men. This theory of PAS says there is not one abusive man on the face of the earth, and if a mother tries to protect her child from abuse, the mother suddenly has a mental condition. I find it hard to believe, so called educated men and woman believe this crap. The Federal goverment has funneled out over 2 billion dollars to fathers rights groups, and if we as women don't start to band together, you can say good bye to your children for ever! Each state should get at least 100 women together and picket the capital. Where are you woman? Stop taking the crumps the court is willing to give you. WOMEN ARE POWERFUL!!! I'm in Wisconsin is anybody out there?? CONTACT ME
bfargen@jvlnet.com
KEEP GOING TIFFANY!
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ashley simmons
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TIFFANY!!!
its me ashley.... im going to try to help with this! i know i might just be a kid but me and grandma were talking and i think that if i were to ask questions and get things together then i could make a difference! i love you and im all for you! i will try to make a difference and get Kora HOME! i love you,Sage,Kora,and John!!! remember that ok?!
Love always,
Ashley
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katysmom
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parental Alienation is not just something that happens to fathers. My ex took my daughter to live with him 7 months ago, and I saw her for the first time in 7 months last week. I went to court to ask for visitation for the duration of the hearing process, and the judge called me selfish. He said that I "dumped" my daughter 7 months ago and can't uproot her. My ex kidnapped her and that was the first I could afford to travel across the country! Meanwhile, my 3 year old girl now swears like a trucker, and takes baths with her dad, and claims his girlfriend spanks her and bangs her head against the wall. But the judge didn't want to hear a word of it. I don't know what to do, when I first saw my daughter again, she was like a stranger, because it had been so long since I had seen her. We talked on the phone a few times a week, but... My ex has told her that I don't want her and I don't have toys and I want to only live with her brother (my son from my current marriage). Now if I had said these things to her, the judge would have yanked her from me. But, in this male dominated society... I have her for 2 weeks. But anyway, parental alienation IS a real condition. But to say a mother protecting her child from abuse or moving out of state to have a better life is PAS is to make a mockery of the whole thing. Has anyone else noticed these laws to "protect" our children only are protecting the parents with the money? This is ridiculous. My daughter is begging me not to take her back to her dad, and I can't even tell her why I can't keep her without violating a court order to not discuss adult things with her. Meanwhile, she thinks I don't love her...
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barbara
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

katysmom

Yes parent alienation does exist, but it is not a syndrome, should not be used in a court of law.
Parent Alienation is used mostly against mothers who are trying to protect their children from abuse.
There is a reason two people get a divorce, and I think it is wrong for a judge to make two people stay connected so that a child has to be put through a shared parenting agenda.
I know there are good loving fathers out there, but they are not the ones using this parent alienation in court to get custody of the children, good fathers know that a child needs their mother, and are not trying to take custody from good loving mothers.
Violent abusive men are winning custody of children on a record bases, this has become a shamefull society that is selling our children to the highest bidder.
Where is the media? If this were happening to men, it would be on the front page of every news paper across this nation, and on every tv news station!
As you can tell I find it hard to sleep at night knowing what is happening to these poor defenseless children, how they must be crying for their mothers.
You must talk to your child, as to why she has to go back to her "father". Don't ignore her questions, she has a God given right to know. You must keep reinforcing how much you love her and want her to be with you, as you know the minute she gets back with "dad" he will be bad mouthing you to her, and yes this is ok with the courts as long as no one speaks the truth to your child.
I wonder what your daughter will be when she grows up, afer being raised in a concentration camp type of home. Hopefully she will become one of the courageous kids who will speak out against the atrocity of the court systems. I hope my granddaughter does likewise.
Has anyone heard about the trail of tears? I never heard one word about it one the news,did any of you? I guess fathers rights groups are so powerfull that they can keep all things surpressed that make them known for what they are. All mothers are bad according to them. I wonder if they all had bad mothers? May God reward then according to their works.
You are all in my prayers
Barbara
Wisconsin
Mothers Unite
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Soresourceful
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I lost my children eight months ago due to false allegations from a court appointed attorney. My children are registering for school tomorrow and my soon to be ex has failed to inform me. I found out from my alienated daughter. I sit here and cry because it has gone on to long and I am supposed to stay strong, I miss them so much. I wanted to be there their first day of high school and first grade. The father has alienated them from me and so has the court. I have looked everywhere for months and have had two attorneys. I found my husband has displayed all ten criteria for PAS. If anyone thinks that it doesn't exist please think again. It's here I'm living it and dying inside. I stayed home for sixteen years with my children and now I sit alone and the lawyer won't budge due to lack of attorneys fees. I didn't work at the orders of my husband and now I have no more money to go to court. If you are experiencing this and want to chat post your email.
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barbara
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soresourceful

Please understand what I am trying to say. Parent alienation is being used by fathers rights groups to always blame the mother for alienating the children from the father. This is being used by violent, abusive men to keep control of their ex-wifes and children. The Judge's in family courts are siding with men to take custody from mothers and giving our kids to the fathers, the father turns around and completely alienates the child from the mother and the judges say this is a wonderful thing. When men get custody they can do whatever they want to and they are getting away with it.
Many mothers are dying inside, because they have lost their children being accused of parent alienation, when in fact all they have done is try to protect their children from abuse. Men are not being accused of this, only women. If a women shows any emotion in a court room she is said to be unstable if a man crys he is being senitive, and all of the women who are backing shared parenting are falling right into the fathers rights agenda. You no longer have a right to live where you want, you no longer have a right to raise and love your children, you are being treated like cattle, being used for breeding, and after you carry your child and give birth, you can kiss your child good bye because the father has bonded with the child in a way that a mother can not understand, this is the fathers rights agenda and the way "pas" is used in family courts.
Yes fathers are guilty of parent alienation, try to tell that to a judge and they will probably laugh in your face and call you a malicious, vindictive, liar. This is happening all across this nation. If you hava a "crc" group in your state look out this is fathers rights in action.
www.gocrc.com, check it out see if it's in your state, if it is not fight to keep it out.
This is an election year, make mothers losing custody an issue , they will try to ignore you, keep pestering them, the media will also ignore you. This is why I say,
MOTHERS UNITE!!!
Barbara
Wisconsin
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lynn7
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You people need to get a life and wake up and do some research!! You sound like chickens, but you don't know what your talking about, actually, the ones that do, realize what it is and what it is about, unfortunately, are going through it, maybe you should tell them too that their pain is not real as well.

For example, those saying PAS is a mental condition, PAS is not a mental condition, it is a set of behaviors commonly seen in bitter custody and/or divorces, the alienator most often suffers from Narcissist Personality Disorder (Controlling), or is vengeful and full of hate of the other parent, thus, using the children as weapons to hurt the other parent as seen typically in the denigration of the other parent and the interference of visitation. Further, courts lack of enforcement of their own court orders as it relates to the enforcement of visitation only perpetuates this problem.

The reason PAS is usually seen as a Male defense is that 90% of the custody awards are given to the mothers. If there was a 90% chance of awards given to fathers, you would be screaming "equal rights" and "descrimination". Men can be capable of inducing PAS as well, while not wanting to sound biased, but the award percentages reflect a prejudice torwards men, guess the constitutional guarantee to equality and the right to raise ones own children has built in provisional double standards? Somebody mentioned getting the media involved concerning the increasing numbers of men getting their children, while your there, mention to them too the percentage of women getting custody of children over the father.

I'm not going to list all of the dynamics of PAS, if you want to learn more about it, do some research as I have had too.

However, there is another thing you should know, one of the best defenses against a PAS alienator is documentation to show a judge of the alienation. A judge typically does not want to upset the "Status Quo", if a judge does make a change of custody based on evidence of PAS, you should really take a look at yourself.

Children neen BOTH parents! Which leads me to my final and most important comment, the people hurt most in PAS are the CHILDREN, usually the parents inflicting PAS are more concerned with revenge, than the emotional well being of their children. Yes, PAS is a form of CHILD ABUSE. Maybe someone should take away one of your parents and you will realize what kind of crime this is, not only to the parent, but to you as well!
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~Chevy~
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone, I am new and just had to put in my two cents worth! I am sorry to hear that some of you think that PAS is not really real. I can tell you first hand that I live PAS issues everyday and have for over 3 years! Now I can't tell you why some people have to alienate the children from the other parent, but in my case, it is because the other parent is a narcissist, and they feel they are above the law...and sadly...so far...they have been! No matter what we have gone to court for...we have won...yet at every turn she has done something new. her last thing has been to leave the state, move 1400 miles away, not have a phone, return all mail, and totally cut off contact with the girls. This Mother was even cruel enough to illegally change the childrens last names to her madien name without letting the father know for 3 months. Now I have stood by this man and watched him being destroyed by anger, fears, frustration, the family courts, the child support enforcement child protective services, and others for over 3 years. He is a good decent loving man who only wants to see his children for the 4 nights a month and 2 weeks per summer he was granted by the courts! He did not want a Divorce in the first place, just came home one day and was told to get out. Now this mother has used the system as a playground for her revenge and has almost totally destroyed him! PAS is real! BTW~ We have not seen or spoken to his kids in over a year and just found out she lied to the courts to have jurisdiction moved to another state without notifying us(of course) this has been a big factor in how she uses the courts. There are good and bad PARENTS. Being a bad parent is not always GENDER SPECIFIC!! Just like there are good and bad lawyers, and judges. Thanks for reading my rant, and I hope that because you have been burned by the system, you don't think all people suffering PAS issues are full of it!? It is Real and it is not Gender Specific either.

~Chevy:)
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kam822
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello I am also new here. I am the father that Chevy is refering to. I have been experiencing PAS for the last 3 years. I did not want the divorce, but as time went on I was glad that it happened. I do take some offense to what is being said about fathers who claim PAS, in the claims that they are all abusive. I am claiming PAS and I am not an abusive father. In fact that is probably why my ex is doing the things she is doing is because I am a good father and she doesn't want the kids to want to live with me. I am not after custody, I never was. All I want is to see my children. Now even if I was able to see them I wouldn't anymore at this time, because they are so brainwashed against me that it would take years and years of couseling and therapy to resolve all the hurt, anger, and misguidance that has been brought upon us all. I was not perfect when the divorce happened, but I never hurt my children, or my ex. To read what I've read upsets me because of the fact that everyone here seems to be anti-father. I do not know about the state of affairs where you all live, but here in CO, It definately is not a father with custody domination. I've had to take a long hard look at myself, and am not perfect by any means, yet I should not have to be put through this, or my children either. My sympathies go out to you, and I recommend you take a hard look at yourselves. In my opinion, PAS is real. This has caused me to put myself in counseling, has almost ruined my relationship, has ruined me financially, mentally, physically, emotionally and had almost caused me to end my life. Think about being open minded to the fact that this affects Mothers and Fathers BOTH....but the Children most of all. The Family Courts are down right corrupt everywhere!
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Angel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, first of all, Dr. Gardner was not murdered by his children. He commited suicide.

I don't understand what you have against father's rights groups. Are you afraid that children's fathers might be a part of their lives? God forbid! If women can have women's rights groups, why can't men? Just like if blacks can have the NAACP, why can't whites, or mexicans or oriental or arabs have an organizations to protect them?

Barbara, it seems as though you have issues with men. Were you abused by your father as a child? Do you still live with your kids father? If not, when was the last time they saw him? In your eyes, is he an abusive father?

Maybe some of these mothers who are claiming PAS isn't real should stop and look at themselves. I don't doubt that there aren't mothers who have lost their children unfairly, but then there are the mothers who try to act like they're perfect and their baby's father is the most awful man in the world, and when they are confronted, they start acting like the most self righteous little b****es you can imagine.

I'd like to believe that the court system is just and fair, but sometimes it's not. Sometimes what we think is in the best interest of the child is not what they think. Some times they're right, sometimes they're wrong, but everytime the focus should be on the best interest of the child/children involved.

~Angel
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~Chevy~
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I see they must not have anything good to reply back when there are others here who are not bad parents, who are not abusive parents and who deserve the right to parent their own children.
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katysmom
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I do not want to get into arguments with anyone, custody is a very touchy subject and puts people at their emotional worst. PAS is very real, but it is not something you "do." It's what children suffer from. If your ex is displaying these behaviors, but your children act normally, it is not PAS, it's a bitter ex. Not only is alienation considered something mainly women do, but if a woman claims PAS in court, and shows changed behavior patterns in her children and her children talking about things they should not know about her life and only could have heard from their fathers, the women are not taken seriously, and are pretty much tossed out of court on their butts. Let me clarify. This at least is what happens in MN.

I do take offense at one thing though. This is Chevy's last post. Speaking of people who are not bad parents and deserve to parent their own children is one thing, but you are not here to talk about your own children. You are speaking of children that you did not give birth to and children you did not raise. You did not specify if you are married to the father or not, but legally either way you are in the same legal position, which is no legal grounds, and going into court acting like you view yourself as a mommy replacement won't help the fathers case, no matter how valid what he is saying is.

What everyone who has been posting here needs to realize is that most of the people here are not going through your average, run of the mill custody disputes. A lot of these women have been abused, physically or mentally, a lot of the husbands have a lot more money to hand to a lawyer, and yes, a lot of these women have wrongfully lost their children or feel they are in danger of it. This is a place we go to vent, to throw ideas around, and to try to make a place that is safe. Since I have been posting here, the environment has been very supportive, which is what people going through this need. We are not members of a fathers rights group, this is a mothers rights board. So while you can sit in front of your computer, saying nasty things to people you know nothing about, your time would be better served to find a site with people posting who have the same views as you do.

And by the way, if you are intolerant of letting people express their own emotions or opinions freely without hurting them, then you really should not have your children, because the last thing we need in the world are more children brought up to be mean and spiteful to people with different views. And I don't mean that to be as mean as it sounds.
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katysmom
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and something I heard once:

"Children get their identities for a long time from their parents. They see themselves as part their mom and part their dad. And when they hear one parent talk about the other parent negatively, it rips little pieces of them away until they they think there is nothing good left in them."

Please, be careful with your children no matter what!
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Soresourceful
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This message is to Chevy. What your friend is as in loving, caring and kind, I am. What your friend is as a parent I am. What your friend is experiencing I am. I however am a woman and not a man. I believe that all children need both parents in their lives considering they are responsible, loving, caring and good role models. What the courts see in our children, our natural feeling of love for our children is so unbalanced. I say your friend is in the same position as me and I feel his pain as a woman. Stick by him and support him and don't ever turn an ear on his thoughts. He needs you!
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